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tv   The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  April 15, 2024 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT

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can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. now, save up to $800 on select sleep number smart beds or 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com breaking news at this minute. donald trump's lawyers just filed that brief we were discussing with andrew wiseman that justifies or attempts to
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justify the bond he is filed in his hundred and $75 million judgment he is appealing in the civil case in new york. we will have more reporting on that tomorrow. that is tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. tonight, the trial begins. donald trump has used his megaphone to attack everything about this case, but now, he is stuck in the one place where he can't hold court, but it has not been all bad for him today. we will explain why transmedia stock could keep dropping and still land him a cool billion dollars. ohio democratic senator sherrod brown joins us to discuss his race against the trump-backed election denier and what it means for control of the senate as 11th hour gets underway on this monday night. good evening, once again, i am stephanie ruhle . we are now 204 days away from the election. today, the likely republican presidential nominee who also happens to be the former president faced his first day
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on trial. he is the first american president to be tried in court on criminal charges. in case anyone needs reminding of what all this is about, this is the case stemming from hush money payments made to stephanie clifford, who goes by the name stormy daniels ahead of the 2016 election. today began with decisions from the judge about what evidence would be allowed and it was all about choosing the people who would decide trump's fate in this case, a very difficult decision. >> reporter: people who will soon sit in judgment of the former president, the first to ever face a criminal trial. 200 people some to the courthouse today, questioned about their backgrounds, media preferences and views on mr. trump. in deep blue manhattan,
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many jurists swiftly dismissed for saying they cannot be impartial, the judge driving home the stakes of the unprecedented moment for the presumptive gop nominee morning mr. trump today if he fails to show up, he risks arrest. mr. trump has pleaded not guilty to the 34 counts of falsifying business records, a low level felony, but the story prosecutors seek to tell, more sorted and sweeping. previewing the central theme today of a presidential campaign rocked by the release of the infamous access hollywood tape, killing mr. trump's determination and prosecutors telling to buy the silence of stormy daniels -- daniels, originally directing michael cohen to pay her so she wouldn't go public saying she had had sex with mr. trump. >> that payment was to hide
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damaging information from the voting public. the participant scheme was illegal. >> reporter: the judge ruled prosecutors cannot play the access hollywood tape at trial, but can introduce what he said. mr. trump's team expected to highlight how the previous d.a. and federal prosecutors declined to press charges in this case. >> this trial is expected to last six to eight weeks and donald trump is also facing three other criminal cases in washington, d.c., georgia, and florida. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel. we had to bring in a great one because this is quite a day. nsm b.c. legal analyst kristi greenberg. hugo lowell is here, criminal investigations reporter for the guardian. he was in the courthouse today. edmond mack morrison tauro is here, now covering national politics at the albert journalism institute and former u.s. attorney joyce vance, has spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. hugo, since you were in the room, what stuck out to you?
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>> we should clarify and say the people in the room or the pool. we were separate but still there. the thing i think stood out to me was trump. it was very clear that trump is going to have a real hard time sitting there and playing by the rules of a criminal trial without having outbursts. i mean, today, he was falling asleep but without having outburst and saying things that could hurt him down the line like he has in his previous cases. >> i've got to talk about the jurors. kristi, you and joyce have interviewed hundreds if not thousands of jurors. what do you make of the process so far? i kept thinking, all these people in manhattan called to jury duty today. so many had to be thinking holy cow, am i about to get on the trump trial. >> one thing that was interesting is what was going on outside. the jurors were all outside for quite some time waiting to get into the building and as they are doing that, right across the street from them is a pro trump rally, people waving
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their flags, being really vocal and you could see the jurors very clearly identified and all watching this happen. >> with her hiding their faces? >> they were not hiding their faces. some of them were doing interviews and you could see it was uncomfortable. the first thought on my mind was, can we expedite getting them into the building? this is not a great way to start, i don't think, but then you have out of the 96 that they called initially, more than 50 said we can't be fair and impartial. that is highly unusual. maybe not for such a high- profile case like this. generally speaking, in criminal cases, usually of people have opinions about things they do say in the judge kind of shame some sometimes to say, can you put that aside and just base it on the evidence that you are hearing usually, jurors will say yeah, we think we can
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unless they are being a real pain. that's not what happened here. >> i want to share what charles coleman said today. he raised this issue about potential jurors, and it is worrisome. watch this. >> we could end up with a stuffed juror. the stealth juror is someone who goes in with her mind already made up, but acts as though they could be fair and impartial. they lie during the close of voir dire so they will tell the court and the other attorneys to be fair and impartial so that they can get on the jury. >> joyce, what do you do with that? how do you deal with the possibility of a stealth juror? that might not be common in your average case but there is nothing average about this. >> you know, it is more common than you would think. there is this concept of jury nullification and jurors who will not vote to convict in cases because of principles that they hold. there is actually a movement for jury nullification, so the thing about picking a jury is
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that it is more art than science, and someone who was -- has struck 20, 30, 40 juries will begin to get a good sense of what they are looking for. in some state and federal courthouses, prosecutors are permitted to conduct questioning of jurors, so you can develop a bit of a report and if an answer just doesn't seem right, you can keep pressing. oftentimes, i would like to ask jurors what bumper stickers they had on their cars because their responses would be very illuminating and so by going through the process, you are able to get a good picture of who the jurors are, and whether they are being truthful and honest when they say they're willing to set aside what knowledge they come to the courtroom with, what biases they might have, and decide the case purely on the evidence they hear in the courtroom.
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>> and are they willing to tell you what the bumper stickers are. kristy, can we go back to something you just said? we're talking about people who said they are biased and don't think they can serve on the jury. i actually get that, but in this case, people who say they can serve , people who want to, couldn't that be a red flag? >> that is why you have 42 questions. this is a very detailed questionnaire that allows both sides to really try to get to know the people, their backgrounds, their experiences and most importantly, their opinions and beliefs that may affect how they're going to view this case. there are a lot of questions here about donald trump, you know, and again, what charles mentioned about people lying, that is a real concern because you would have to be living under a rock not to have a strong opinion about donald trump one way or the other, but how strong is it? are you attending rallies? are you volunteering for his campaign, like are you doing things that are more than just casting a vote, for example, and again, i think given all of
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the rhetoric in this case and all of the things donald trump has said -- bashing the judge, bashing the d.a., the question is, based on anything you have heard in the media, can you really put aside that information and decide whether or not he is really being treated fairly? >> okay, and we are not going to debate whether there is a two-tiered system. he's getting super special treatment. we know there are no cameras in the courtroom but he is talking to cameras outside. he is posting on social media everyday while he is in the courtroom. gag order or not, he's not going to stop. he knows he's not going to rikers island so if you are the prosecutors, if you are the judge, what do you do? >> this is what the whole trial is going to be about. you're going to be hearing about this, did he cross the line, what are they going to do if he crosses a line? i want to say something about the jurors situation. >> would you like to volunteer?
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we're talking about stuff jurors, people who maybe want to be on the case, we should give it up for people who actually showed up and are trying to do their duty in this case because we're talking about those people outside that are chanting, the whole world's eyes are on this and we know one thing that happens with this president and this movement, if you cross it, you get put on blast. these are people who could be risking a lot to try and keep the justice system going so whatever might happen to get them on the case, those who are actually going to serve on this jury are pretty brave. >> that is a great point. trump is making all the noise and chaos he possibly can. but once this trial is underway and these witnesses are sworn to
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testify under oath, is that when this thing gets real? will trump be able to keep lying on the courthouse steps? >> i mean, he may be lying on the courthouse steps but bear in mind two things. the lies have to stop there because the moment he's in a courtroom, he's going to be a criminal defendant and he will have to act like one or be reprimanded by the judge and even on the courthouse steps is going to have to be careful because he's under this gag order that came up today where the prosecutors in the d.a.s office were saying even while he was in the courtroom, he was posting stuff on truth social that grabs against the outer limits of the gag order and they were already recommending he be held in contempt. $3000 not much for trump at this point but it sets the terms going forward. >> political enthusiasts have been waiting for this day that finally, a trial is going to begin. things are going to happen. are people weighing that just because trump is now sitting for this trial it does not mean that he's going to be convicted? i mean, the prosecution has a pretty high bar and if it is a
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mistrial, if it is a hung jury, the political mojo trump is going to get out of this or even air cover, he's going to give the chris sununu's of the world, the people realize that just because the trial is happening and all of this will be exposed, so much of the ugly has already been? >> this team has already begun spending this thing in all different kinds of directions. it's a witchhunt, it's an act of trying to delay the election like delay me from campaigning on purpose. all of these things are being said to build the idea that no matter what happens, he can say he won but i will say this. i spoke with a lot of democrats at the beginning of this campaign cycle back in december when we were looking at this year for all these court cases for trump and they said look, we are just going to sit back and let this thing play out. if you are the guy who is not in court, you are much happier than if your guy is the guy who was in court. >> that's a fair point. there are a lot of people making the point. you made it earlier, that trump looked pretty miserable in court today.
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somebody else was having a bad day. trumps social media company. dj t stock took another nosedive today in the market after they announced possibly millions of more shares could be sold but guess who is going to get a lot of that start? donald trump himself and i want you to listen, because this is not badness for him. it is fantastic news. when all is said and done, donald trump could end up with 65% of all of the shares in this company so short, you might think oh my god, he's getting crushed. he is not. every share, every dollar is found money. this is all a trick and the trick is to get as many shares as he can and he's doing that
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than converting it to cash or alone before people lose interest in the stock. i just hear it every day, people laughing at him, laughing as the stock is going down saying he's losing his shirt. his stake was worth 5 billion, now it's only worth 2 billion but it is still worth 2 billion. he did not have to spend one dollar to get it. he's getting more shares, and in the not so distant future, he could get $1 billion payout and it will be legal. >> stephanie, this is why i come on your show. early i was talking to a guy i work? what does this mean the story about the shares and it's like i don't know, it seems bad, i guess, but this is why we come and talk to you. the fact is we know the guy needs money. he's under a lot of pressure to give money maybe to the city of new york. he needs it. you're telling me it looks good to have a stock if you can get it before it tanks. i guess it makes sense but again, like now i feel better about my own stock from utah. >> it is stunning that he is in this position in here we are, christie, the company behind the hundred and $75 million bond, don hankey, the guy in l.a. that was giving trump money for
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the bond this week, the deadline was tonight for the paperwork he did not get in last night. but even if he doesn't, hasn't trump already won because what he needed this time and he got it. >> i mean, i guess we will see but it is interesting, the fact that that paperwork is not in. it means there are no good answers to the questions the new york ag is asking about, whether this company is liquidated, whether they are stable enough to front him this money. otherwise, this should've been a pretty straightforward filing. the fact we haven't seen it is another red flag. >> things are very real now in this campaign. we were talking about it for months, what was going to happen and today we are sitting here.
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we have millions of dollars at stake. he's in a criminal court. people should think about what exactly this moment is and what a big change it is, from back in the primaries when it was all kind of smoke and mirrors and someday this will happen. now it's all happening and we are talking about a lot of bad news piling up for donald trump today. >> when things start getting real it is bad news. however, donald trump allies talked about a two-tiered justice system but if you look at it he has not faced any consequences, not from a, not from the two impeachments, even as people around him have gone to prison. how is this man looked at besides being the luckiest human out there? >> well, i think in some ways, that is how he has been look that up until now, and right now, we are at the point where we find out if he continues to
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be tough, might he get a mistrial, might there be a hung jury here? several weeks down the road will donald trump finally be a convicted felon? people have different views about this case but in my view, this is a strong case. much of it is on paper showing these business transactions were fraudulent. the government has said they will establish that he made the fraudulent business records in order to aid in the commission of crimes involving campaign- finance and taxes and the government is not bringing this case just for fun. this is not a district attorney who doesn't understand the consequences of bringing a case that is not backed up by evidence. every appearance we've seen from this immaculately well- prepared trial team has been that they are ready to go and ready to convict this defendant and if that happens, it will be a changing point in the conversation about donald trump and who he is. >> it will be a changing point in u.s. history. thank you all so much. when we returned, his race
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could decide who controls the senate. ohio democratic senator sherrod brown is here to explain what his party needs to do better between now and november and later, president biden is urging israel to avoid escalation with iran but israel may have other plans. the 11th hour just getting underway on a consequential monday night. underway on a con monday night. hipping to your advantage. keep those expectations with reliable ground shipping. thanks brandon. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ ♪♪ you know that thing your family does? yeah, that thing. someone made it a thing—way back in the day. but where did it come from? and how did it get aaaall the way to you? curious? ancestry can help you find out. because that thing has a story, and it's still being written. see for yourself at ancestry.
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control of the senate in november. they need to hang onto the hotly contested seats in red states like montana and ohio i am happy to welcome democratic senator sherrod brown of ohio, running against bernie moreno. he is a business guy who has made election to nihilism a focus of his campaign can --. senator, we know the top issues in your campaign across the state is the economy but how do you make them care that the presumptive republican nominee is on trial right now for election interference and he has three more on the way. things like that feel abstract to the voter, but they are the very foundation of what makes our democracy work. >> well, i focus on my job. i know there's plenty for
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pundits to talk about on politicians in washington and media people and i think it is one of the reasons people don't much like washington. today i was in toledo, this morning, and i did an event with two people who were paying way more for their insulin than they can afford. they are now, because of what we have done, bringing the price of insulin to $35 a month and in the future, we are going to put a limit on out-of-pocket costs for prescription drugs for medicare. those are the issues people listen to and what people vote on, and the rest is background noise for most voters. >> the let's talk about that, because the president is actually passing historic legislation when it comes to helping consumers, the average american, deal with the economy in things like inflation whether it is shrink flation or
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dealing with student debt or prescription drug prices, biden is doing a lot. how do you get the voters in your state to give him credit for it? >> first of all, we have to do more. we are running ads right now about what we have done to the pact act so those veterans exposed are getting treatment. it is named after a young man in ohio who passed away from an illness after exposure to that. we have passed our pension bill, again named after an ojai and to restore the position of a 100,000 union workers just in my state alone, but we've got to do more. when connie and i go to the grocery store, often after church on sunday, i see people who are not happy with food prices but they understand that it is about corporate greed. every time you pay more for your food at the grocery store, you are paying for stock buybacks. you are paying for bonuses for corporate executives and people know that.
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it's up to our legislation or the ftc to crack down on deceptive practices by the food industry that shrinks the size of products, the bottles in the packages in the cans, while they increase prices. >> house republicans are sending the impeachment of dhs secretary mayorkas to the senate tomorrow. will you join your fellow democrats in voting to skip a trial? >> yeah, i think it's a distraction. i just wish the house would do this. i wish the house would pass the bill dealing -- would pass the bipartisan border deal, our bipartisan border bill, which will essentially close off the border and keep our country safer and deal with fentanyl way better. i wish we would pass the ukraine barrel -- bill. i wish they would pay attention to the real things that matter, not the political games. the house of representatives is
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in chaos, always playing political games in the senate is not exactly a model of good government are always getting things done quickly but we passed a bipartisan bill in ukraine, we voted for border security. if the house would follow suit instead of playing these games, the country would be safer. 400 people a month die from fentanyl overdose in my state, 400 people every single month. we've got to deal with those issues in the house of representatives just wants to keep playing games. >> the problem is political games have become the name of the game so what you say to those voters who say the border is an issue and immigration is an issue don't realize it was donald trump who blocked the bipartisan border deal with their unhappy with inflation but donald trump hasn't offered any policy solutions. how do
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you get them to understand that? >> well, my job isn't to get them to understand or weigh in on the presidential race. my job is to do my job and that is working on our bill to stop those companies from deceptive practices is to work on the ukraine bill. huge ukrainian community in cleveland i believe the third- biggest in the country, they are terrorized about what's happening in the country, what's happening to their family members. my focus is on getting that done in the senate, getting those bills passed in the house. i understand the show is a lot about politics and i guess it is what i do for a living but my job is to get these things done in the politics really will take care of themselves even in the state that is more conservative. in my state last november we passed by 57% of the vote, the people in the state voted for a constitutional amendment to guarantee abortion rights. the guy you mentioned at the beginning running against me is not just for a nationwide abortion ban, no exceptions, even in the face of ohio passing that bill, he is still trying to enact abortion ban,
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even overwriting what the voter said. that's why i ask people to come to sherrod brown.com. sign up to help us fight against that national abortion policy they want, that digging in and supportive interest groups instead of taking on the drug companies in the food companies jacking prices up. when we come back, all eyes on israel as it plots its response to iran's attack over the weekend. more leaders are urging restraint but will they listen, when the 11th hour continues. h they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans. and feeding their dogs dog food that's actually well, food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. get 50% off your first box at thefarmersdog.com/realfood
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now, we turn to the aftermath of runs attack on israel this weekend. richard engel has the details. >> reporter: israel is vowing to strike back, officials telling nbc news a response could be imminent. while touring a base that was damaged, the chief of staff of an israeli army today said --
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>> i ran will face the consequences for its actions. we will choose our response accordingly. >> reporter: that announcement came after israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu held a second war cabinet meeting in two days. a senior israeli official telling nbc news that the cabinet agreed that a military response is needed to show deterrence, but that it should avoid provoking a regional war and be coordinated with the united states. president biden told netanyahu not to escalate further because with u.s. help, israel shot down 99% of iran's missiles and drones. the u.s. even led a hastily organized coalition to defend israel that included jordan in the uk. iran says it's done, that the barrage was it's only response to israel's deadly airstrike on iran's embassy compound in syria but i ran warned today that any israeli reprisal would be met by an immediate counterstrike. >> for more, former editor in chief of the jerusalem post is
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here. he is now a senior fellow at the jewish people policy institute and the author of three books on the israeli military. >> i want to start with a quote i heard earlier today. david sanger of the new york times called this a rubicon moment. iran has not attacked israel in the four decades since the revolution. does israel know how more -- have more latitude to attack iran directly? >> i think israel would be justified in retaliating and there is some argument that they should as a deterrent but they are going to want to synchronize their actions with the united states because it was this u.s.-led coalition together with israel but also impressively together with uk, france, and jordan that actually prevented any of these missiles, these drones from doing damage in israel at all, and so that defensive shield is not only impressive from a
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military perspective, i don't think we've seen 300 missiles, rockets and drones fired at a country and none of them, not a single one did any significant damage, but it is also impressive from a political and strategic notion that israel has this coalition in place, this de facto coalition to defend itself. >> what did you see this weekend? >> we saw almost what looked like a fireworks show, hundreds of objects flying through the sky. you've seen the images of what was flying over the dome of the rock in the mosque. it's just maybe a kilometer by air from where i live. we heard explosions. we had air sirens. we were down in the bomb shelter but i think what jeremy said, what we are really facing here is a pivotal moment, and it is such because this is a direct iranian attack against
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israel. we've gotten use to all these attacks by hezbollah in lebanon , the hoodies in yemen, but for the iranians to now say we can attack israel with only over 300 drones, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and expect what nothing will happen -- do you know why they expect nothing will happen is because until now nothing has happened to them. they've been able to wreak havoc and destruction throughout the region and get away with community and sanctions and money and here's a moment that israel has to decide. sadly, it's been told by the world, you stand alone. we are not going to support you on this but israel has to decide, does it allow this president to be created or does
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it decide we have to stop this now because we are afraid of what will come down the road in the future. >> jeremy, what options does israel have? >> well, they could engage in airstrikes against military targets and do so in a way that does not provoke a wider war. in the past, israel has undertaken operations, for example, to take out the nuclear reactor in iraq, to take out the nuclear reactor in syria, to take out some of the iranian nuclear capability through cyber attacks in 2010 and 2011. israel has gone on the offense in essence to play strong defense and i think israel is such a small country. iran is 10 times larger than israel in terms of population. it is 20 times larger in terms of its land mass. israel is a much smaller country so it has to play offense in the region and keep those weapons out of its airspace, from harming its centralized population. >> let's go back to what i think you are starting to touch on. israel's allies, including president biden, are urging restraint. do you think netanyahu will listen?
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should he? >> it's a very difficult position. we still have the war with hamas in gaza that has yet to be concluded. he is highly dependent on the united states not just for diplomatic cover, but also for the continued supply of weapons and spare parts and that has become highly controversial back in washington where we are seeing a lot of people talk about adding conditions to the continued military aid to israel, so now we see though that israel is under attack from a fourth front. we've been under attack from gaza. we've been under attack from lebanon. we've been under attack from yemen but now we are under attack from iran. israel is the most threatened and attacked country today, unfortunately, in the world and has these four or even five active fronts and they really have to decide on a strategic level, because i almost compare it to going back to 2001 when the first rocket was fired at israel from gaza. imagine for a moment that israel had gone into gosar then and dealt with the problem at
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its foundation and at its core. would we have had the october 7th massacre 22 years later and a bit? i don't know but the question we have to ask ourselves is, if we let this slide and don't respond but despite all of the reassurances from our allies, will we find ourselves dealing with a stronger, more emboldened and potentially nuclear iran one day? >> jeremy, what are the risks if this conflict escalates in your opinion? >> israel has a very difficult challenge in gaza. we still have a large number of hostages including at least five american hostages who we believe remain alive and of course the bodies of other americans have yet to be returned and it is not finished
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off the leadership of hamas. we have the bulk of the war in israel also threatening with a highly capable rocket artillery and mortar force in ground force and so as yaakov points out, israel has a number of challenges on its immediate borders and i think it has to way whether or not it wants to engage in this back and forth with iran or whether it wants to rely on the motors in which it has been operating, which is more covert, going after iranian surrogates and proxies, taking out some of the leaders through high-value target operations in damascus and elsewhere, and i think that is the question netanyahu is going to have to weigh and he's going to have to do it synchronizing his efforts with president biden and the biden administration. >> before i let you leave, yaakov, i have to ask about your daughter. since we last spoke i know she's been serving in the idf. how is she? >> is doing well. she has finished officer training and is now a commander of soldiers and she is like the tens in the of thousands and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and reservists who still today, six months after that hamas massacre, continue to put their lives first and on the front lines to keep us safe. we saw the impact and what that
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means really sunday morning when we had really courageous pilots and missile-defense operators who were keeping israel's skies safe alongside our american, british, french, jordanian friends to do something that was pretty remarkable and we should all be saluting the serviceman. >> without a doubt. yaakov, jeremy, thank you for being here. when we return, day one of new york versus trump is on the books, but how will it impact the campaign? we will get into the politics of it all but before we go, in honor of tax day, i would like to share a tweet of note from our friend, mark cuban, for he tweeted about taxes writing, i pay what i owe. tomorrow i will riot transferred to the irs $288 million. this country has done so much for me, i'm proud to pay my taxes every single year. tag a former president that you
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notice not. i present that tweet without comment. we will be right back. how do i get my raised beds looking so good?
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i do have a secret, a very special secret. it's organic soil from miracle-gro. you're great too, ryan. not as great as the soil, though. okay... you said it. [ryan laughs] if you have wet amd,
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besides being the first former president to stand trial on criminal charges, he is also the first presidential candidate campaign from the courtroom. ron, i know your eyes were glued to the television today. what were your thoughts on what went down? >> well, i thought the three big moments were trump asking to have the day off for barron's graduation, which set off quite a firestorm in right- wing media tonight. the judge did not deny that request. he said he would consider it.
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that date is still over a month away, and then trump falling asleep twice apparently during the trial, and sleepy don went viral and social media throughout the day which was interesting, considering he's always using sleepy joe and the other thing was karen mcdougal, the state, saying that they were going to call karen mcdougal, a former playboy model, who's going to testify that she had an affair with donald trump throughout milani's pregnancy with baron. i thought those were the three big things that stood out to me. >> matthew, let's talk about how this is going to impact voters. do you think there are people out there who the verdict in this case is going to impact how they vote? >> yes. i think it is a percentage of independence. i think democrats have decided
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where they are, which is make sure donald trump doesn't enter the oval office ever again. i think by and large, 90 to 92% of republicans have decided. independents are still iffy on this race, which is why it is roughly dead even. i would think if you take a look at the polls, there has been a slight sagging already in donald trump support. once you get through the primaries and voters start focusing on it, there has been a slight sagging to where he had to maintain a pretty good go. his significant lead is gone now but i think a conviction for voters, especially independents who are looking for any signal in this race of two people they don't like, two people independence both don't like, a conviction is fundamentally different than the theory of the case up until a conviction and i think if he gets a conviction, it will be tough for him to win those voters back. >> but, a conviction is not guaranteed. what if he's let off, then what? >> that is a whole other -- if he is let up -- off on this
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case the more fundamental problem is, is there justice in america that is blind, that doesn't take into account whether you have money, lawyers are fame, so that is one discussion. politically, if he is let off, i think it feeds into his stick of i'm being persecuted. i don't think it helps them because i think a lot of that is baked in already, what people feel about that, but it does mean there is not going to be the percentage of voters i talked about that move based on a conviction. i think it raises more questions about our legal system than it does about our political system. >> ron, let's talk about that hard-core maga crowd. they are very loud and outspoken, so they sound big, but for his most ardent supporters, they have been saying this is a political persecution but think about today. donald trump has lots of supporters in the area and that was a very small crowd
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protesting or showing their support for donald trump in downtown manhattan today, wouldn't you say? >> it was and i paid a lot of tension -- attention to that crowd and a lot of them were from out of town. there were not even new yorkers. the organizer of them was from florida, so people came in from outside the area and they still only had about 25 people there, and it was a lot of the usual crowd. several of them were selling products. one guy was selling a donald trump themed hammock, and someone else was selling something different, so no, there was supposed to be this big rally outside the courthouse for trump, but there were more counter protesters against him then there were supporters. >> matthew, what would your advice be for the biden campaign? all eyes are justifiably on trump, the first criminal trial we've seen for a former president. the biden administration is trying to save up and not make this political.
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how should they play this? >> i would stay away from any comment on the trial at all, zero comment on the trial and basically conduct your campaign as if the trial is not going on, so have the president travel to events, do their advertising, run the campaign like he would run the campaign and never enter into this discussion because there is much more conversation in the press and on television than they need to weigh in on, and it's going to be filtered through all of that anyway, so i would say run your campaign and let the courts in manhattan conduct themselves and stay as far away from it as you possibly can. >> all right then. matthew, ron, thank you for wrapping us up tonight. tonight, of course, i hope you know was the wnba draft. we've been updating on two superstars. i was -- i a was caitlin clark
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was the number one draft pick tonight going to indiana fever and angel reese was selected number seven overall by the chicago sky. we know these ladies and their peers are already changing the game, and ticket prices for the indiana fever, no surprise, are already flying. fantastic news to end the night, and on that note, i wish you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. t the end of tomorrow. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪
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